Hybrids

[Joel]

I was talking with a friend this weekend, we heard that some guys try to make an hybrid between an alaskan husky and a
lycaon.Since the progress in genetics is constantly evoluing, I think we will see more and more hybrids in the next years.
What are your opinions about that?

Joël

P.S. Mr Bragg, maybe the hybrid subject could be a new category on this forum.

[ditkoofseppala]

Joel, this is the second time that rumour has surfaced in Quebec. Jean-Marie B. told me about it almost a year ago.

This is somewhat amusing and perhaps a little embarrassing for me personally, because I may unwittingly have been responsible for these rumours. For years now I have been warning people that when the day comes that gene-splicing techniques become practicable and affordable enough, the dogsled racing game will be turned upside down on the day when somebody shows up at a major race with a gene-spliced dog team with Cape Hunting Dog (Lycaon pictus) genetics! I suspect that some clever fraudster somewhere read that, and decided he could freak out and intimidate the opposition by claiming he had "lycaon hybrids" in his team. (You know the psychological warfare that goes on between major racing competitors!)

To the best of my knowledge and belief, it is not possible to hybridise the domestic dog and the Cape Hunting Dog -- the only "lycaon hybrids" to be found in a quick Google search were those involving the ongoing taxonomic dispute about indigenous North American canid species -- is the Red Wolf a hybrid between the Coyote and the Timber Wolf, is the Eastern Wolf a distinct species or not, etc. This, in fact, could be where some of the confusion originates, because those who propose the Eastern Wolf as a species are calling it Canis lycaon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Timber_Wolf.

Perhaps this is what the person in question meant -- wolf "hybrids"? If so, it's no new thing, and historically it has never worked well in the sleddog world. Wolf hybrids typically are said tear their harnesses to ribbons, to be extremely difficult to manage in harness, and not to want to work.

In my mind there is considerable doubt that fertile crossbreedings within genus Canis should be considered true hybrids. Until more definitive studies in molecular genetics establish the actual genetic distance between the populations presently considered species within that genus, I think we have to consider the possibility, given the freedom and success with which members of different Canis species reproduce, that these are not true biological species. One of the tests of speciation, after all, is that members of distinct species do not usually mate and that such matings, if they do occur, are rarely fertile.

[Joel]

I found some informations about canine hybrids.
Wolf,dog,jackal,dingo and coyote all have 78 chromosomes arranged in 39 pairs, so they can be ''hybridise'' and produce fertile offsprings.
The african wild dog (lycaon)also have 78 chromosomes, but I don't know if it's arrange in pairs( are chromosomes always in pairs?)
Hybridise dog-lycaon is possible or not when we know those information?
It's all about chromosomes?

Thanks
Joël

[ditkoofseppala]

Joël, as I understand it, it's rather more complex than that. Yes, chromosomes are typically arrayed in pairs, one from each parent for all 39. But having the same chromosome number is no guarantee that two species can hybridise successfully; and in some cases of disparate chromosome number, hybrids can still happen, I believe. The actual compatibilities and incompatibilities lie at a biochemical level and are probably different for each hybrid case. Sometimes hybrids display the classic "heterosis" or "hybrid vigour" effect -- but not in all cases. For example, lions and tigers can be hybridised with various other species of cats, but most such hybrids have serious health issues and shortened longevity!

Do you have any further information about the people who are claiming to have lycaon hybrids -- such as whether these are eastern wolf hybrids or supposedly Cape Hunting Dog hybrids? If it's the latter, I've got my doubts! It might be theoretically possible, but I've never heard of any such.

I would imagine that hybridisation would be unlikely to work, as far as producing a usable Lycaon pictus/Canis lupus hybrid sleddog. I never claimed that would or could happen. What I speculated upon was that someone might eventually try a gene-splicing exercise, assuming they could identify enough of the gene complex that enables the Cape Hunting Dog to sustain hunting speeds in excess of thirty miles an hour, and to keep it up for an hour if necessary. If those genes could be stripped into racing sleddogs it could create a team that would be darned difficult to hang onto -- but it would smoke everything else on the race course.

[JM Belanger]

Joel, Mr. Bragg,

I think the next step for us (Joel, I, those who talk about that) will be to go on site and see what is going on.
This could be a great voyage in the Northern Ontarion world!
I wouldn't be surprised to see that something is done in that way - creative ideas are often good!

I agree that if this happens - the sleddog race environment would change a lot...
Either Alaskan, Siberian or anyother "ian" would be changed for "African"!
And then Sleddog Race would become International events for good - any roads or trail could be used!
Can you picture yourself in a bikejoring competition at over 30 miles per hour???

Does World Wide Exchanges and human competitive attitude will have a limit one day?
I do hope so for the sake of human and the ones they love.

Bests,

JM

[ditkoofseppala]

Yes, Jean-Marie, if you know who it is that is purportedly doing such experimentation and where the kennel is, an onsite visit might tell a lot. Don't forget to take your camera! I would imagine that the odd ear shape and the peculiar spotting of the CHD would probably come through recognisably in hybrid progeny.

I don't like to imagine running a dog team or bikejoring at over 30 mph, but then, in the early days of the automobile, speeds of 20 mph were considered "reckless." All in all, it might in the end be a positive development for SSSDs, SH, and other traditional sleddog populations. They'd be so far "out of the running" that hopefully there would be little further interest in racing them. (I know that will sound odd to some folks; but I've never seen racing competition as particularly beneficial for a breed -- and current developments in the thoroughbred racing world strongly underline that.)